'The Vaccine War' about people who think India can't do it vs those who think India must do it, says Vivek Agnihotri

'I realised that in the last 10-15 years, the kind of films we were showing were more about Europe and America than about India. And I said that films can be used as a way to showcase India's strengths and India's issues,' Agnihotri tells DH.

After his previous hit The Kashmir Files, Vivek Agnihotri’s upcoming directorial The Vaccine War is set to release on September 28. In his interview to DH’s Riddhi Kaushik, Agnihotri talks about his take on media, filmmaking, politics and everything in between.

'This is beyond doubt that there was a certain section of the media that was definitely advocating for foreign vaccines despite knowing that India was making its own vaccine,' says Agnihotri ahead of the release of his film, 'The Vaccine War'.

Excerpts:

The media has been portrayed in a negative light in the trailer of your upcoming film, The Vaccine War. Do you think that the media in the pandemic was just that—‘the bad guys'?

No, actually, I would say 90 per cent of the media was very good during the pandemic. It's like if you are showing a corrupt police officer in a film doesn't mean that the entire police force is corrupt. Why is the media so sensitive? Why does the media think that showing one bad journalist means that all media is bad? It means the media is also guilty of something somewhere. I'm not against journalism, I am against selective and biased journalism. Generally, people feel that the media, instead of giving them news, is actually trying to brainwash them with views. A lot of people take advantage of this. They find a weak person who can be bought with money, and then use them for their own agendas. This is beyond doubt that there was a certain section of the media that was definitely advocating for foreign vaccines despite knowing that India was making its own vaccine. And this campaign started after they got to know that India was making its vaccine, not before that. If they were running this campaign before, I would have understood. So the question which will come to any normal person, like me is 'why were they doing this?' They don't want us to become self-reliant? When you see the film, you will understand. This is the story of people who think India can't do it versus the people who think India must do it. Eventually, the superheroes do it.  

What was your perspective when you thought of the movie -- was it of a blockbuster-delivering director who knew that making a movie on Covid, which is a relatively untouched premise, will do good in terms of box office numbers or of a storyteller eager to share the story of the forces behind India successfully emerging out of Covid?

No, see I did not make this film thinking about all these things. I'll tell you where the seed of the story was. I was going to shoot The Kashmir Files from March 17, 2020. Then I got a call that there was going to be a nationwide curfew and we were not allowed to go to Kashmir. Suddenly, I was at home with the entire unit and we had nothing to do. I'm also a very spiritual reader. Anything which has to do with life or death, I'm very interested in. I started studying, researching and slowly found that for the first time in the history of humanity, the entire world shut down at the same time. The consciousness of seven-and-a-half billion people was focused only on one thing, death. The fear of death. I immediately started walking twice a day to lose weight. Everybody was talking about immunity. We were thinking about things we never thought about before. Why did it happen? Where's the enemy? You couldn't see it. It was not like a dinosaur or a giant in size, we had no visual image of this thing. And today, we don't even remember there was Covid. When I went to take the vaccine, they put it in and after which I said 'Give me the vaccine' to which the nurse replied 'I've already given it to you'. So, the cure is also a little drop of water kind of thing. What is that science? We then conducted research with the Indian Institute of Management and realised that more than 90 per cent youngsters and people do not know anything about this science. This science is called virology. How was it possible that what the whole world is affected by comes under virology, what they're cured by comes under virology, and nobody knows about that science.

Then I asked who made this vaccine? Everybody says Bharat Biotech or Serum Institute of India. No, it was made inside the lab by scientists. I said it's very important for the world to know, while everyone said that India will perish..., today India is the healthiest and happiest country in the world. India's the only growing and the most powerful emerging force in the world. Everybody recognises this.

It is because we made the vaccine. When India won the World Cup for the first time, people said that they could play. Same thing happened with us. So I said this story must be told. Otherwise 30-40 years later, some other Vivek Agnihotri makes a film like that -- like I made The Kashmir Files --people would call that a propaganda film. I don't want that to happen to another Vivek Agnihotri. Therefore, it was important to register it in history.

What was your thought process when you were conducting the surveys for The Vaccine War? Were there any constraints? 

I am a 24/7 workaholic. I work every single day and money is not a problem because I have been struggling for a very long time. I'm used to it. Somebody who flies in an aircraft and suddenly you ask them to take a bus, they will have a problem but somebody who's been travelling in a bus all his life won't have any problem.

Did winning the National Award for The Kashmir Files make things different for The Vaccine War?

No. We had finished making The Vaccine War and were showing the film in America at that time. It was around 4 am and we were in Chicago, sleeping, when my phone started buzzing. All these Delhi numbers from news channels popped up. I thought, 'Hey, what happened?' 'Did somebody die in India?' When I checked the phone, I realised that we had won this thing. We just got up, Pallavi (wife and actor) and I had a nice cup of tea and we had to leave at 8 am for some flight. So we got ready and left. 

Was it really as casual as you are narrating?

We were very happy. Pallavi and I hugged and congratulated each other. But you know, America is such a lonely place. You're sitting in this room and you get the news. What else can you do? And early in the morning? Then I got so busy. I am working day and night, so where is the time? 

How did you feel after the National Award? Did it act as a full stop to all the criticism that The Kashmir Files received? 

You think the criticism can ever stop? It will never stop because terrorism is an industry and some people are directly or indirectly employed there. They have to attack this film forever. They have to attack the narrative forever. 

But yes, I felt very good for the victims of Kashmir genocide. You know why? Because I'm like family to them now. And I really care about their pain. They used to ask me if they were better off before the film when nobody had heard about their story and their pain was internalised. “Your film gave us hope that the world would get to know about it. And we started feeling that our pain is recognised. We started healing. And then again, people started attacking and they said genocide never happened,” they would tell me. But with the National Award, all of them felt very good. They said this is our award. Therefore I dedicated it to them. This is why I get emotional talking about this because I know their pain. 

Let’s dive into politics, what is your opinion on the newly formed alliance I.N.D.I.A and do you think with them in the picture, the 2024 election dynamics will change?

I know only one thing, any relationship which is caused out of temporary greed cannot last. All these people oppose each other in every state. Congress is against TMC, they are against DMK and somewhere, they are against another party. In UP they are against Akhilesh Yadav. In Bihar they are against Nitish. Only because the enemy or Mr Modi or whatever, is so powerful they have come together thinking that okay, we will just somehow fight it. This is not lasting even now, forget about winning elections. 

All of them issued a resolution boycotting some journalists. Now, Nitish said no, I have nothing to do with it. Akhilesh said 'why should I suffer because of Congress?' We will go to all the journalists. Now Congress has been forced to take it back saying, it's not a boycott. It's non-cooperation. I would say I.N.D.I.A bloc is a bunch of jokers who have come together to do a circus. So I'm going to enjoy it like a circus. But a circus is never permanent. Every circus ends after a couple of months. This circus will also end in a few months. So anybody who's thinking of giving them a vote can instead throw the vote in a dustbin. Let the dustbin win but not this alliance.

After your interviews, does your wife ever tell you to not be as political as you are?

Pallavi is a very different person. She is very warm. She is better off as a good mother and a good actress. She has realised that I don't say what I say for effect or because I have an agenda. She knows that this is how I am and as a storyteller, I share my perspective from where I'm seeing things. And I'm not part of Bollywood so I can say anything I feel like. I have no stakes in politics, so I can say anything I feel like. She knows I'm a very chilled-out, cool, happy-go-lucky guy.

When you say no stakes in politics, no stakes now or no stakes ever?

Never. And I can give you a reason. Right now, I'm sitting here and I am speaking, this is my voice. If I join politics, I'll be speaking somebody else's voice and that is one thing I can never do in my life. If I have to do that, I would rather do it for a star. I'll become his voice and make millions and millions and have a great lifestyle and have parties all my life. A person who quit Bollywood just because he didn't want to be subordinate to a star, how do you think I'd be a subordinate here? It's not my nature. I'm a German Shepherd. You can't tame me beyond a point.

What are your views on the G20 Summit?

G20 Summit is a great thing we did. I think passing the resolution with consensus is an amazing thing. And I think that was possible only in India. I believe India has it in its DNA. This consensus has established India as a great global leader, and I have a feeling in the next four or five years, there are going to be just two voices in the democratic world, US and India. 

Let us talk about soft power and cinema. With a movie like The Vaccine War, where India is shown as a country that emerged out of the pandemic shining brighter than ever, are you two a couple on a mission to take Indian cinema abroad to establish the country’s potential and make a worldwide statement?

You're absolutely right. You found the pulse of what we are doing. The problem is that when you travel, everybody says, 'Oh, you're from Bollywood song and dance'. I said, we are also 'song and dance', not just 'song and dance'. I realised that in the last 10-15 years, the kind of films we were showing were more about Europe and America than about India. And I said that films can be used as a way to showcase India's strengths and India's issues. And therefore we started I Am Buddha as a production, and our mission statement is to use our cinema as soft power to showcase India’s strengths on the global stage.

Will we get to see anything on Manipur? 

There are so many directors and producers in the country, why does everybody think that I'm the only one who's going to make a film on this. Yes, the day we know something about it since right now there is kind of an embargo we don't really know and once I'm free. I'm already committed to two films. People ask me why I don't make Gujarat Files or this files, that files, but the files series was announced 10 years ago as a trilogy. Our trilogy was right to truth, right to justice and right to life. First we thought of these three concepts. Then we fitted the stories into it. So this is a trilogy and I will finish that first. After that, if some young director wants to make Manipur Files, they can call me if they have a script. I'll produce it for them. I'm not shying away from anything here. 

Everybody is saying you should make a film on Chandrayaan and Aditya also but I cannot copy myself every single time. I want to change my genre.

Are you planning to cover Mahabharata any time soon? 

I've announced that I'm making the biggest epic tale on Dharma and now it is for you to figure out. People of Karnataka will be very, very delighted and they will thank me when I formally announce what I'm doing. This project has roots in the soul of Karnataka.

Now with The Kashmir Files, you have set the bar. Does the success of the movie create pressure on your future projects?

No, if that was the case, I would have made The Kashmir Files part two. I made The Vaccine War, we made a smaller film. The Kashmir Files was a Rs 15 crore film, this is a Rs 12.5 crore film, because that's all we had. So we put it back into making this. I'm not a young boy who's going to get like, ‘Oh, people are looking at me’. I have no needs. I have two-three black shirts and two black trousers, and three-four black T-shirts. I have been wearing these shoes for the last five years and I don't change my phone every year. So I'm very comfortable in my skin.

Coming to a few candid questions, what is your favourite cuisine?

My favourite cuisine is any kind of clear soup and a desi Indian salad.

What exactly falls under Indian salad?

There are a lot of things. People think Indian salad only has cucumber and carrots. I can do lots of things that you can't even imagine. I also like millet 'khichdi'. 

Millet seems to be the trend these days…

No, but I have been eating it for a long time. Though we do not call it millet, we use the local name. 

When I say the words ‘Never have I ever’ what is the first thing that comes to your mind?

Never have I ever loved any other country like India. 

What does a week-off or a holiday look like?

I have not taken any holiday. Everything is a holiday for me. For writing a script I go to a nice place, so I don't need a holiday. I quit working in corporate so I can do what I love doing. Like for a mother there is no holiday, for a housewife there is no holiday, for me there is no holiday.