<p>Tathagata Roy, a veteran in the Bharatiya Janata Party, also a former governor, is in direct confrontation with senior party leaders. His recent tweets, and re-tweets, targeted at the party’s national leaders, and state command, have exposed the factionalism within the party. In an exclusive interview with <em>DH</em>'s Mohammed Safi Shamsi, Roy claims that the party lacked a strategy for Bengal elections, and its leaders from the Hindi heartland failed to understand, and deliver.</p>.<p><strong>You are in the news for tweets and re-tweets, statements critical of your own colleagues, who represent your party’s state and central leadership. Why is this fiasco?</strong></p>.<p>I have been thoroughly exasperated, scandalised and generally very upset about the way the party has squandered this opportunity of coming to power. Even if it could not have come to power in the 2021 elections, it could have had a much better result, been a very solid Opposition, and given the government, run for its money in the assembly, by criticising it. After all, it’s the function of an Opposition in a parliamentary democracy. Unfortunately, none of these things were done. And that these things were not done, were directly attributable to certain mistakes, or misdeeds; both are possible.</p>.<p>Of the people, who were in charge of running this election process, something that irks me terribly.</p>.<p>I have named leaders (I am not happy with) – the KDSA team, Kailash Vijayvargiya, Dilip Ghosh, Shiv Prakash, and Arvind Menon.</p>.<p><strong>After completing your tenure as governor, you returned to Kolkata, and were looking for an active role in politics. Being a senior leader, do you think you didn’t get appropriate responsibilities? Perhaps, you were also eyeing the chief ministerial post?</strong></p>.<p>I wasn’t. But yes, I wanted to be actively involved in party politics. As soon as I came over, after being relieved of my responsibilities as a governor, I came and saw all the people, who were leading. After a month, or so, I found that they didn’t want me in the process. Occasionally, they respected me but whenever there was a question of any active role (for me), they somehow stayed out of it. After a couple of months, I got a clear message that they don’t want me in. I personally think, I would have come in the way of certain things that they intended to do, that they did.</p>.<p><strong>The BJP in Bengal took a great leap in the last Lok Sabha election. The state elections turned out to be a poor show? What do you think are the reasons?</strong></p>.<p>First, we must understand why we did a great show in the last elections. It is primarily because of one person, Narendra Modi. Modi, first as a chief minister of Gujarat, and thereafter as prime minister, has shown himself to be such a superior leader material that people were very impressed with him, and no one else could hold a candle to him. In 2014 when he was fielded as a prime ministerial candidate, I was present in the national executive meeting in Goa where this decision was taken, and the gathering, there, very enthusiastically endorsed him. The persons fielded as alternatives, couldn’t hold a candle to him.</p>.<p>By 2019 his stature had increased, and the stature of the Opposition had reduced. Congress was being run in a horrible way. So, with Modi at the front, we got 18 seats, no surprise.</p>.<p>But Lok Sabha and Vidhan Sabha elections are different things. When we came to 2021, things were slightly different. Eighteen seats translate into 126 assembly seats, although both elections are different, 126 would have at least become 110. But being reduced to 77, and 70 now, was a real fall. If you ask me the reason for that fall, there are several.</p>.<p>One, the choice of candidates. The choice of candidates was so horrible, and so unreasoned, and so erratic, that voters rejected them in their minds, even before they went to the polling stations. Second, in an election, as I understand, one has to identify issues. No issues were identified. We also have to take into account the mindset of the people in the state and have a nuanced campaign, particularly in West Bengal, because the state has been subjected to the Left’s influence for a very long time.</p>.<p>In fact, I had the impression that the leaders (mentioned earlier) didn’t have any idea of what it was like. They imagined that this was possibly just like any Hindi-heartland election and they have got to polarise Hindus against Muslims, and that is the way they are going to win the elections. Even that is understandable, but the choice of candidates is absolutely not understandable. The third reason why we lost was because we could not project any person as the likely chief minister. People started speculating, and once they saw in front of their eyes, they figured that Mamata Banerjee was a much better choice. Fourth, the state was flooded by Hindi-speaking leaders from the Hindi-speaking states. Now, this was a very big mistake.</p>.<p>Mamata Banerjee has projected herself as Bengal’s own daughter. In general, an impression was created that the BJP is Hindi-speakers’ party. Disinformation went to such an extent that some people said that if the BJP comes to power, shall we have to eat vegetarian food, shall we have to put tika on our heads all the time. Perception matters. All these put BJP on a bad wicket. The election management team did not understand this.</p>.<p><strong>Given an opportunity to reform, what change would you seek in the party's state unit’s functioning? Is BJP capable of winning Bengal with a thumping majority, ever?</strong></p>.<p>I personally think it is because the kind of mal-administration we have seen in the state during Mamata Banerjee’s rule and the CPIM’s rule, people were looking, and are looking for good administration. Mamata Banerjee is just a copy of the CPIM. She has figured that if the CPIM could survive for 34 years without giving any concrete results, then why can't she do it?</p>.<p>She could also last for 34 years. She also figured that economic opportunity, employment, don’t have to be arranged. But, people have to be given a sort of free gifts. And, this is the sort of thing she tried to do through the introduction of programmes for people.</p>.<p>This should have been exposed by the BJP. The BJP didn’t have a strategy at all in this election. I have heard speeches that were made. I totally ignored the Hindi speeches. Those turn the people the wrong way. Second, the city people understand Hindi, but outside the city, and women, no one understands Hindi at all.</p>.<p>This present government is very clear that it can’t bring any industries here, can’t create employment. So, the BJP should have said that we want to create employment. None of these things were projected. The Hindu-Muslim agenda should have been projected in a much more nuanced way. If you say all Muslims are bad that’s not going to be accepted over here, in the state, because people have been conditioned in a particular way, and all Muslims are not bad either. The point is that there has been suffering of Hindus at the hands of Muslims in Bangladesh, earlier in East Pakistan. This should have been brought to the forefront. There’s nothing against Indian Muslims, we will drive out Bangladeshi Muslims, and rehabilitate Hindus, this should have been clearly expressed.</p>.<p>On the other hand, some speeches were made that turned people against us.</p>.<p>This is one thing that contributed to the vendetta of the Trinamool against the BJP after they won.</p>.<p>About state leadership in BJP: It has to be founded on merit. It is not founded on merit now. In practical politics there is always some favouritism. Still, there should have been an objective assessment, proper people should have been selected. Instead, no such thing was done.</p>.<p><strong>Who do you think, in the party, are capable of leading Bengal? A party leader hinted that if you don’t like the way the party operates, you are free to quit. What’s your take?</strong></p>.<p>To the first part of the question, I would not like to answer.</p>.<p>Second, the leader didn’t have to say that. I am free to leave the party, he doesn’t have to say. It is also a fact that he can’t drive me out. I am not leaving the party. The party has a policy that after 75 no person would be put in a position of active politics. I would have been out, but I could have played a part in advising, deciding policy, using my experience over the last 31 years, I could have contributed. People who were sent out to TV channels, many of them cut a very sorry figure.</p>.<p><strong>What do you want to focus on in the days ahead if you don’t get an active role in the party? You have your own supporters in the party. Would you float another party?</strong></p>.<p>No, certainly not. With this party I would like to give it as much of a chance as possible. What is the reason that the BJP was not present strongly before 2014? It was because we were 3rd, or 4th party. Things I would like to put an emphasis on is that the BJP should stand for something. One, economic development and employment generation. Our CM had driven out an automobile factory, which would have created opportunity. No entrepreneur will touch the state, this should have been emphasised in the campaign.</p>.<p>According to Bangladesh’s census, it has 8 per cent Hindu population, including a handful of Buddhists and Christians, whereas Muslim population in West Bengal has risen more than 30 per cent. This is something we should have pointed out, without any enmity towards the Muslim population in Bengal. We would have said that numerical superiority in West Bengal was important. Last thing, the Bengali Hindu mind has to be re-engineered. Right from 1930s, the cultural space in Bengali mind has been occupied by Leftists, and they have put certain ideas that have resulted in very undesired qualities in Bengali minds, like unreasoned defiance on any kind of authority, indiscipline, disregard for rules. </p>.<p><strong>Check out latest DH videos here</strong></p>
<p>Tathagata Roy, a veteran in the Bharatiya Janata Party, also a former governor, is in direct confrontation with senior party leaders. His recent tweets, and re-tweets, targeted at the party’s national leaders, and state command, have exposed the factionalism within the party. In an exclusive interview with <em>DH</em>'s Mohammed Safi Shamsi, Roy claims that the party lacked a strategy for Bengal elections, and its leaders from the Hindi heartland failed to understand, and deliver.</p>.<p><strong>You are in the news for tweets and re-tweets, statements critical of your own colleagues, who represent your party’s state and central leadership. Why is this fiasco?</strong></p>.<p>I have been thoroughly exasperated, scandalised and generally very upset about the way the party has squandered this opportunity of coming to power. Even if it could not have come to power in the 2021 elections, it could have had a much better result, been a very solid Opposition, and given the government, run for its money in the assembly, by criticising it. After all, it’s the function of an Opposition in a parliamentary democracy. Unfortunately, none of these things were done. And that these things were not done, were directly attributable to certain mistakes, or misdeeds; both are possible.</p>.<p>Of the people, who were in charge of running this election process, something that irks me terribly.</p>.<p>I have named leaders (I am not happy with) – the KDSA team, Kailash Vijayvargiya, Dilip Ghosh, Shiv Prakash, and Arvind Menon.</p>.<p><strong>After completing your tenure as governor, you returned to Kolkata, and were looking for an active role in politics. Being a senior leader, do you think you didn’t get appropriate responsibilities? Perhaps, you were also eyeing the chief ministerial post?</strong></p>.<p>I wasn’t. But yes, I wanted to be actively involved in party politics. As soon as I came over, after being relieved of my responsibilities as a governor, I came and saw all the people, who were leading. After a month, or so, I found that they didn’t want me in the process. Occasionally, they respected me but whenever there was a question of any active role (for me), they somehow stayed out of it. After a couple of months, I got a clear message that they don’t want me in. I personally think, I would have come in the way of certain things that they intended to do, that they did.</p>.<p><strong>The BJP in Bengal took a great leap in the last Lok Sabha election. The state elections turned out to be a poor show? What do you think are the reasons?</strong></p>.<p>First, we must understand why we did a great show in the last elections. It is primarily because of one person, Narendra Modi. Modi, first as a chief minister of Gujarat, and thereafter as prime minister, has shown himself to be such a superior leader material that people were very impressed with him, and no one else could hold a candle to him. In 2014 when he was fielded as a prime ministerial candidate, I was present in the national executive meeting in Goa where this decision was taken, and the gathering, there, very enthusiastically endorsed him. The persons fielded as alternatives, couldn’t hold a candle to him.</p>.<p>By 2019 his stature had increased, and the stature of the Opposition had reduced. Congress was being run in a horrible way. So, with Modi at the front, we got 18 seats, no surprise.</p>.<p>But Lok Sabha and Vidhan Sabha elections are different things. When we came to 2021, things were slightly different. Eighteen seats translate into 126 assembly seats, although both elections are different, 126 would have at least become 110. But being reduced to 77, and 70 now, was a real fall. If you ask me the reason for that fall, there are several.</p>.<p>One, the choice of candidates. The choice of candidates was so horrible, and so unreasoned, and so erratic, that voters rejected them in their minds, even before they went to the polling stations. Second, in an election, as I understand, one has to identify issues. No issues were identified. We also have to take into account the mindset of the people in the state and have a nuanced campaign, particularly in West Bengal, because the state has been subjected to the Left’s influence for a very long time.</p>.<p>In fact, I had the impression that the leaders (mentioned earlier) didn’t have any idea of what it was like. They imagined that this was possibly just like any Hindi-heartland election and they have got to polarise Hindus against Muslims, and that is the way they are going to win the elections. Even that is understandable, but the choice of candidates is absolutely not understandable. The third reason why we lost was because we could not project any person as the likely chief minister. People started speculating, and once they saw in front of their eyes, they figured that Mamata Banerjee was a much better choice. Fourth, the state was flooded by Hindi-speaking leaders from the Hindi-speaking states. Now, this was a very big mistake.</p>.<p>Mamata Banerjee has projected herself as Bengal’s own daughter. In general, an impression was created that the BJP is Hindi-speakers’ party. Disinformation went to such an extent that some people said that if the BJP comes to power, shall we have to eat vegetarian food, shall we have to put tika on our heads all the time. Perception matters. All these put BJP on a bad wicket. The election management team did not understand this.</p>.<p><strong>Given an opportunity to reform, what change would you seek in the party's state unit’s functioning? Is BJP capable of winning Bengal with a thumping majority, ever?</strong></p>.<p>I personally think it is because the kind of mal-administration we have seen in the state during Mamata Banerjee’s rule and the CPIM’s rule, people were looking, and are looking for good administration. Mamata Banerjee is just a copy of the CPIM. She has figured that if the CPIM could survive for 34 years without giving any concrete results, then why can't she do it?</p>.<p>She could also last for 34 years. She also figured that economic opportunity, employment, don’t have to be arranged. But, people have to be given a sort of free gifts. And, this is the sort of thing she tried to do through the introduction of programmes for people.</p>.<p>This should have been exposed by the BJP. The BJP didn’t have a strategy at all in this election. I have heard speeches that were made. I totally ignored the Hindi speeches. Those turn the people the wrong way. Second, the city people understand Hindi, but outside the city, and women, no one understands Hindi at all.</p>.<p>This present government is very clear that it can’t bring any industries here, can’t create employment. So, the BJP should have said that we want to create employment. None of these things were projected. The Hindu-Muslim agenda should have been projected in a much more nuanced way. If you say all Muslims are bad that’s not going to be accepted over here, in the state, because people have been conditioned in a particular way, and all Muslims are not bad either. The point is that there has been suffering of Hindus at the hands of Muslims in Bangladesh, earlier in East Pakistan. This should have been brought to the forefront. There’s nothing against Indian Muslims, we will drive out Bangladeshi Muslims, and rehabilitate Hindus, this should have been clearly expressed.</p>.<p>On the other hand, some speeches were made that turned people against us.</p>.<p>This is one thing that contributed to the vendetta of the Trinamool against the BJP after they won.</p>.<p>About state leadership in BJP: It has to be founded on merit. It is not founded on merit now. In practical politics there is always some favouritism. Still, there should have been an objective assessment, proper people should have been selected. Instead, no such thing was done.</p>.<p><strong>Who do you think, in the party, are capable of leading Bengal? A party leader hinted that if you don’t like the way the party operates, you are free to quit. What’s your take?</strong></p>.<p>To the first part of the question, I would not like to answer.</p>.<p>Second, the leader didn’t have to say that. I am free to leave the party, he doesn’t have to say. It is also a fact that he can’t drive me out. I am not leaving the party. The party has a policy that after 75 no person would be put in a position of active politics. I would have been out, but I could have played a part in advising, deciding policy, using my experience over the last 31 years, I could have contributed. People who were sent out to TV channels, many of them cut a very sorry figure.</p>.<p><strong>What do you want to focus on in the days ahead if you don’t get an active role in the party? You have your own supporters in the party. Would you float another party?</strong></p>.<p>No, certainly not. With this party I would like to give it as much of a chance as possible. What is the reason that the BJP was not present strongly before 2014? It was because we were 3rd, or 4th party. Things I would like to put an emphasis on is that the BJP should stand for something. One, economic development and employment generation. Our CM had driven out an automobile factory, which would have created opportunity. No entrepreneur will touch the state, this should have been emphasised in the campaign.</p>.<p>According to Bangladesh’s census, it has 8 per cent Hindu population, including a handful of Buddhists and Christians, whereas Muslim population in West Bengal has risen more than 30 per cent. This is something we should have pointed out, without any enmity towards the Muslim population in Bengal. We would have said that numerical superiority in West Bengal was important. Last thing, the Bengali Hindu mind has to be re-engineered. Right from 1930s, the cultural space in Bengali mind has been occupied by Leftists, and they have put certain ideas that have resulted in very undesired qualities in Bengali minds, like unreasoned defiance on any kind of authority, indiscipline, disregard for rules. </p>.<p><strong>Check out latest DH videos here</strong></p>