<p>Amid concerns over data privacy, 1987-batch IAS officer <span class="bold"><strong>Rajeev Chawla</strong></span>, widely credited as the father of Bhoomi — the project that digitised Karnataka’s land records — is spearheading the massive Kutumba (Family ID) project that banks on citizen data to deliver services. Chawla, the additional chief secretary (e-governance), speaks to <span class="italic"><em>DH</em></span>’s <span class="bold"><strong>Bharath Joshi </strong></span>on data, technology and more. Excerpts: </p>.<p class="Question"><strong>Tell us about the new Family ID project. What will this ID mean for citizens?</strong></p>.<p>The principle is that I shouldn't ask you for any data that I have already taken from you. Kutumba (Family ID) will be a single input that will auto-fetch information about your family. Mind you, we don't have any information that you've never given to us. We also don't have Family IDs of people who don't interact with the government. We’re not interested in such people anyway. Through Kutumba, we know everything. Kutumba, therefore, helps the government identify eligible people for benefits. Kutumba will be the backbone to create a welfare State that will work on a <span class="italic">suo motu</span> basis. Citizens shouldn't (have to) apply for any service. You'll see this year that all scholarships will be given to students without them applying for it. </p>.<p class="Question"><strong>Has any other state done this?</strong></p>.<p>Rajasthan has done something called Bhamashah. There, they collected data from citizens. We haven't. There's a problem when it comes to collecting data from citizens. How do you know if the data is credible? We have data when you applied to us. We know your caste when you applied for a caste certificate. We know your income when you wanted an income certificate. We know which families have farmers. We also know which child is studying where because our education database is linked with Kutumba. You are registered in my property tax database, so I know your house. The beauty of Kutumba is that it is based on a government database. It complies with the (pending) Personal Data Protection Bill completely. We won't show your data to anybody else.</p>.<p class="Question"><strong>But how robust are the government's tech systems? We often hear of server issues in sub-registrar offices, for instance.</strong></p>.<p>When you say the server isn't working, a villager won't know if that really is the case. Maybe the server is functioning, but the person doesn't want to work. With the doorstep service delivery model and private telecentres, if the server is functioning, the service will be delivered -- because they get money for that. We have a wonderful data centre that has about 2,500 virtual machines. We also have the Karnataka State Wide Area Network. There will be problems, but they are all manageable.</p>.<p class="Question"><strong>The government has extended the Janasevaka scheme across Bengaluru. How does doorstep service delivery work exactly?</strong></p>.<p>There are about 800 citizen services that are online. The problem has been with literacy among people on how to apply for these 800 services. So, it’s important to have an assisted mode of service delivery. Under this scheme, a Janasevaka comes to your place. This will be an IT-literate person equipped with a tab and Aadhaar-compliant fingerprint device. We are expanding slowly; we have started with just 60-70 services out of 800. The citizen won’t have to waste time visiting a government office and can also avoid middlemen. Citizens can call 080-44554455 or use our mobile app to book a Janasevaka to come home. There are 225 Janasevakas for Bengaluru. Behind Janasevaka lies a digital infrastructure backed by an administrative mechanism. </p>.<p class="Question"><strong>And there’s a new rural service delivery programme coming soon?</strong></p>.<p>This is called GramaOne, just like BangaloreOne, where services will be offered to citizens under one roof. The Chief Minister has told us that there should be good service delivery centres run by the government, on PPP model, where at least 100 services are offered. If we try to offer all 800 services, then we will mess it all up. So, by January 26, we will have 10,000 manned centres in rural areas. A pilot is on in 12 districts now. </p>.<p class="Question"><strong>And what is the internet penetration in Karnataka, especially rural areas?</strong></p>.<p>The numbers are surprisingly very high. In rural areas, there are 48% internet-enabled people. In urban areas, this figure is 110% because it could be that one person has more than one connection. The more exciting part is that out of 34,000 villages (including hamlets), some 32,000 have either 3G or 4G. That means, 94% of our villages have internet facilities. There's also the Centre’s BharatNet project, where private service providers will take broadband to rural areas.</p>.<p class="Question"><strong>Isn’t it true that officials are not accepting applications from citizens under Sakala, the scheme that guarantees time-bound services?</strong></p>.<p>Yes, it's still happening. If we cut this problem from the root itself, if there's no manual delivery of service, then you can't obliterate Sakala. There is a government order that all 800 services should be delivered online. If we can get this order implemented rigorously, then there’ll be no way for you to apply manually and bypass Sakala. The IT system will automatically generate Sakala numbers for citizens’ applications. We will request the CM to issue directions that this should be followed strictly. Also, we need to come up with Tatkal services. A caste certificate under Sakala takes 15 days. So, people go through other mechanisms that may be unfair. When IRCTC and passports have tatkal, why not other services?</p>.<p class="Question"><strong>There is a demand for a service that will allow citizens to register FIRs remotely or online. Why can’t this be done?</strong></p>.<p>Technologically or electronically, it’s not a challenge. Also, the IT Act doesn't come in the way. The Act only says that land transactions can't be done electronically. There's a specific bar on this. Otherwise, the Act says anything that can be done manually where there's a need for a signature can be done electronically. However, this is left to the police department. There may be a large number of administrative problems. What if frivolous complaints are filed? That's a valid concern. An FIR implicating another person may have serious implications.</p>
<p>Amid concerns over data privacy, 1987-batch IAS officer <span class="bold"><strong>Rajeev Chawla</strong></span>, widely credited as the father of Bhoomi — the project that digitised Karnataka’s land records — is spearheading the massive Kutumba (Family ID) project that banks on citizen data to deliver services. Chawla, the additional chief secretary (e-governance), speaks to <span class="italic"><em>DH</em></span>’s <span class="bold"><strong>Bharath Joshi </strong></span>on data, technology and more. Excerpts: </p>.<p class="Question"><strong>Tell us about the new Family ID project. What will this ID mean for citizens?</strong></p>.<p>The principle is that I shouldn't ask you for any data that I have already taken from you. Kutumba (Family ID) will be a single input that will auto-fetch information about your family. Mind you, we don't have any information that you've never given to us. We also don't have Family IDs of people who don't interact with the government. We’re not interested in such people anyway. Through Kutumba, we know everything. Kutumba, therefore, helps the government identify eligible people for benefits. Kutumba will be the backbone to create a welfare State that will work on a <span class="italic">suo motu</span> basis. Citizens shouldn't (have to) apply for any service. You'll see this year that all scholarships will be given to students without them applying for it. </p>.<p class="Question"><strong>Has any other state done this?</strong></p>.<p>Rajasthan has done something called Bhamashah. There, they collected data from citizens. We haven't. There's a problem when it comes to collecting data from citizens. How do you know if the data is credible? We have data when you applied to us. We know your caste when you applied for a caste certificate. We know your income when you wanted an income certificate. We know which families have farmers. We also know which child is studying where because our education database is linked with Kutumba. You are registered in my property tax database, so I know your house. The beauty of Kutumba is that it is based on a government database. It complies with the (pending) Personal Data Protection Bill completely. We won't show your data to anybody else.</p>.<p class="Question"><strong>But how robust are the government's tech systems? We often hear of server issues in sub-registrar offices, for instance.</strong></p>.<p>When you say the server isn't working, a villager won't know if that really is the case. Maybe the server is functioning, but the person doesn't want to work. With the doorstep service delivery model and private telecentres, if the server is functioning, the service will be delivered -- because they get money for that. We have a wonderful data centre that has about 2,500 virtual machines. We also have the Karnataka State Wide Area Network. There will be problems, but they are all manageable.</p>.<p class="Question"><strong>The government has extended the Janasevaka scheme across Bengaluru. How does doorstep service delivery work exactly?</strong></p>.<p>There are about 800 citizen services that are online. The problem has been with literacy among people on how to apply for these 800 services. So, it’s important to have an assisted mode of service delivery. Under this scheme, a Janasevaka comes to your place. This will be an IT-literate person equipped with a tab and Aadhaar-compliant fingerprint device. We are expanding slowly; we have started with just 60-70 services out of 800. The citizen won’t have to waste time visiting a government office and can also avoid middlemen. Citizens can call 080-44554455 or use our mobile app to book a Janasevaka to come home. There are 225 Janasevakas for Bengaluru. Behind Janasevaka lies a digital infrastructure backed by an administrative mechanism. </p>.<p class="Question"><strong>And there’s a new rural service delivery programme coming soon?</strong></p>.<p>This is called GramaOne, just like BangaloreOne, where services will be offered to citizens under one roof. The Chief Minister has told us that there should be good service delivery centres run by the government, on PPP model, where at least 100 services are offered. If we try to offer all 800 services, then we will mess it all up. So, by January 26, we will have 10,000 manned centres in rural areas. A pilot is on in 12 districts now. </p>.<p class="Question"><strong>And what is the internet penetration in Karnataka, especially rural areas?</strong></p>.<p>The numbers are surprisingly very high. In rural areas, there are 48% internet-enabled people. In urban areas, this figure is 110% because it could be that one person has more than one connection. The more exciting part is that out of 34,000 villages (including hamlets), some 32,000 have either 3G or 4G. That means, 94% of our villages have internet facilities. There's also the Centre’s BharatNet project, where private service providers will take broadband to rural areas.</p>.<p class="Question"><strong>Isn’t it true that officials are not accepting applications from citizens under Sakala, the scheme that guarantees time-bound services?</strong></p>.<p>Yes, it's still happening. If we cut this problem from the root itself, if there's no manual delivery of service, then you can't obliterate Sakala. There is a government order that all 800 services should be delivered online. If we can get this order implemented rigorously, then there’ll be no way for you to apply manually and bypass Sakala. The IT system will automatically generate Sakala numbers for citizens’ applications. We will request the CM to issue directions that this should be followed strictly. Also, we need to come up with Tatkal services. A caste certificate under Sakala takes 15 days. So, people go through other mechanisms that may be unfair. When IRCTC and passports have tatkal, why not other services?</p>.<p class="Question"><strong>There is a demand for a service that will allow citizens to register FIRs remotely or online. Why can’t this be done?</strong></p>.<p>Technologically or electronically, it’s not a challenge. Also, the IT Act doesn't come in the way. The Act only says that land transactions can't be done electronically. There's a specific bar on this. Otherwise, the Act says anything that can be done manually where there's a need for a signature can be done electronically. However, this is left to the police department. There may be a large number of administrative problems. What if frivolous complaints are filed? That's a valid concern. An FIR implicating another person may have serious implications.</p>
